FRIEND:    Hey Kent, sorry I had to run yesterday.
BARDSQUILL:    howdy
FRIEND:    So, have you done astral traveling?
FRIEND:    How does it feel to do that?
BARDSQUILL:    many times I went through preliminary experiences; twice I went full-blown out there
FRIEND:    But how does it feel?
BARDSQUILL:    going OBE was ok, but the preliminary experiences were rough, even painful
FRIEND:    The preliminary experiences, were they involuntary?
FRIEND:    Why painful?
BARDSQUILL:    yes involuntary
FRIEND:    I never knew it could be painful.
FRIEND:    Why do you suppose the experience was unpleasant?
BARDSQUILL:    being out  there isn't painful
FRIEND:    What are the possibilities?  Where can you go?
BARDSQUILL:    but before I went OBE there were years of pre-OBE experiences involving actual energy pulsations
BARDSQUILL:    I think I got "changed."
FRIEND:    Oh I see.
BARDSQUILL:    The first energy wave scared the poop out of me.  I thought I was going to die, worse, annihilation.
BARDSQUILL:    but over 20 years the pulsations became more tolerable until almost pleasant
FRIEND:    Hm.  Do you currently go OBE?
BARDSQUILL:    Haven't gone OBE since 88
FRIEND:    Just remember, there's no such thing as annihilation.
BARDSQUILL:    In my case the full-blown OBE happened only twice
FRIEND:    I want to read Astral Dynamics soon, by Robert Bruce.
FRIEND:    It's theoretical and practical.
BARDSQUILL:    OBE requires a conditioning to jump realities that is guarded within us by our fear of death.
FRIEND:    If we eliminate that fear... that would be good.  No?
BARDSQUILL:    I think I had to be changed slowly at the fundamental levels, almost atomic
FRIEND:    Fear is always the main burden.
BARDSQUILL:    Fear of dying is the master fear from which little fears calve and is a tough bird to tangle with.  I've come to believe that somehow this fear keeps us on earth.
FRIEND:    Possibly.   
BARDSQUILL:    You cannot actually defeat fear with will.
FRIEND:    Energy work can though.
BARDSQUILL:    for me it took literally a series of shocking experiences, what I now believe to be the quickening, that is a fundamental acceleration that I could only handle in small doses.
BARDSQUILL:    but over time this shockingness became more tolerable, then....
BARDSQUILL:    the final stage was a surrender, totally opposite of the warrior-will thingy.
BARDSQUILL:    after all warriors eventually lose
FRIEND:    Hm.
BARDSQUILL:    but I didn't just declare, "I surrender." Nope.  Life sort of surrendered me, weird.
FRIEND:    Maybe you were fighting back something that was actually "good" for you.
BARDSQUILL:    Then these beings appeared and said "now is the time," and I went OBE for the first stage anyway.
BARDSQUILL:    The first stage of OBE is similar to earth although my body was less bounded by physical 3D laws
BARDSQUILL:    Thought sort of moves you through this world, more luminous, but still with natural forms.
BARDSQUILL:    Still with form-body identification, but...
FRIEND:    Perhaps the astral body vibrates at a different frequency... they say the astral is the world of emotions.
BARDSQUILL:    There's another leap into total formlessness, stage two
BARDSQUILL:    keep in mind that prior to these events I had to be surrendered, well, beat to a pulp as far as worldly things.
FRIEND:    Maybe your surrendering actually allowed the free flow of vital energies.
BARDSQUILL:    not easy, I had to kind of fail at living from the standpoint of Western values
BARDSQUILL:    I was a tough case, heh.
FRIEND:    Yea, it challenges our beliefs and perceptions.
FRIEND:    Spiritualists say that beyond the astral level, there is a mental level, and beyond that the divine level.  Now maybe there are "sub-levels" too.
FRIEND:    The divine level is most likely where there is no form.
BARDSQUILL:    The second OBE was a leap into the astral and from there a leap into the formless.  This second stage does not allow anything I think of as "myself" to enter within the formlessness, body, emotions, mind, they were not allowed in.
FRIEND:    A sub-level would include the "etheric"--the bridge between the physical and astral.
FRIEND:    Your thoughts--they are now allowed?
BARDSQUILL:    And afterward the brain-mind fails to find good descriptions.
BARDSQUILL:    body-mind-emotions are sloughed away to go in there.
FRIEND:    You may have reached some of the highest levels--the divine possibly.
BARDSQUILL:    but I was nevertheless there.  The I Am part of me still was intact
BARDSQUILL:    I died.
FRIEND:    Died?  No, don't think so... there is no death.
FRIEND:    You made a visit and came back.
BARDSQUILL:    Now I'm back the most mysterious predicament of all, a pisser actually, because I don't know how to hatch again, you know, one...two..three...hatch.
BARDSQUILL:    well I do, takes a surrender that in truth I have no idea how to reenact
BARDSQUILL:    You see for me I did not in a most saintly way, surrender, in fact when it happened I was a worldly wreck, like I say, life surrendered me.   
BARDSQUILL:    but I do have peripheral experiences, tain't the same anymore.
FRIEND:    So have your experiences helped or hurt you?
BARDSQUILL:    little clues here and there, oddities in perception
FRIEND:    Sometimes advanced people have experiences such as these--it is lack of knowledge that makes them suffer.  Maybe you can look into chakra healing and such to clear away fears and oddities.
BARDSQUILL:    yes, I've been on a knowledge quest obsession although more accumulation of earthly knowledge doesn't seem to do what needs to be done
FRIEND:    I have OCD.  But I am feeling better now... the more I seek healing, the better I am able to cope.  Powerful stuff, intended for good, can hurt without knowledge and practice.
FRIEND:    Well, academia isn't going to help.
FRIEND:    Do you know T.?
BARDSQUILL:    Creative quest works better, that is to increase creativity, which spirals away into unknown-ness
BARDSQUILL:    yup, know T.
FRIEND:    Ever talked to him about this stuff?  His reading was helpful for me.
FRIEND:    He was very accurate with me.   
BARDSQUILL:    Been keeping an eye on T. since he was 19.
FRIEND:    Oh I see... what do you think of his mediumship abilities?
BARDSQUILL:    I think he is clearer channel than me or my generation, I knew he was "in for it."  And I tried to help.
FRIEND:    What do you mean "in for it?"
BARDSQUILL:    He's let me see, more apt by nature to handle the external chaos that seems to happen during stages of transformation.
BARDSQUILL:    He's done very well, hasn't been easy
BARDSQUILL:    Folks undergoing transformations are sometimes like a cultural sliver.
BARDSQUILL:    They get challenged alot.
BARDSQUILL:    In most cases.
BARDSQUILL:    At Nineteen I knew these challenges were facing him, so I tried to help alert him.
BARDSQUILL:    Thing is like I say, he is by nature more apt.
FRIEND:    What does apt mean (sorry)?
BARDSQUILL:    could be a sign of human evolution at work, he is young enough to be my kid.
FRIEND:    I think so too.
BARDSQUILL:    By more apt, I mean, something in his nature, that allows this life-forging process to work more smoothly
FRIEND:    I ask my guardian angels to guide me whenever I am overwhelmed.
BARDSQUILL:    Folks that are evolving draw down a lot of external cultural flak, but T. more or less, is able to declare, "oh THAT!" and go right on without a glitch.  Pretty cool.
FRIEND:    I get periods of confusion... and then some clearing.
FRIEND:    Yea, well, people accuse him of being this or that... these people are ridiculed often by little minds.
BARDSQUILL:    the confusion and opposition is actually the most significant part of the deal.
BARDSQUILL:    leads to surrender.
FRIEND:    You know, somebody once said, and I forget who...
If you are not confused, you are not thinking.  :-)
BARDSQUILL:    again surrender is a subtle deal, can't just go on the mountain and clench fist and shout I SURRENDER DAMMIT!
FRIEND:    lol
BARDSQUILL:    tried that, heh.
FRIEND:    :-)
FRIEND:    Ask your guardian angels for help--they exist.  I just started doing that... it works.