Subj:	****(resend?/update) Miss--Guided Patriotism and Religious Fanaticism...Are American Traits Too [Political/Social Commentary]
Date:	10/16/01 1:02:26 AM Pacific Daylight Time
From:
BCC:	BARDSQUILL

This is an older post that got overlooked...so I am sending/resending it. Yours truly, lover of TRUE American principles outraged one reader. Can you believe it...me...controversial? So, I try to make a few ideas clearer...

Dorian
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In a message dated 9/12/01 11:28:03 AM, Mia5124738 writes:

<<you make it clear that you believe that the USA is Babylon>>

Yes, it is. In it's day Babylon, the greatest nation in existence, also became the most perverted, the most immoral and eventually, sliding down the spiritually entropic path of self-righteousness justification, the most corrupt nation in it's day. This is the case for ANY great Nation-State you can think of, this is a matter of cyclic historical verity. Babylon, Egypt, Persia, Greece, Rome, Nazi Germany, etc...ALL FELL! Tell me, HOW is American ANY different from these once great nations? It is only a blind idiot that cannot see where America stands today in the greater scheme of things. And this is not meant as an individual attack on any SINGLE American, but a general truth about Nation-States, and we are certainly a corrupt nation today, collectively speaking of course. If you have a problem with this, then I suggest it is your lack of objectivity which is to blame, not my interpretation?

<< You can imply any of those quotes to any country at some point in time.  Our nation is a great one, and if YOU don't feel that way, thats your opinion >>

It is true that prophecies not only COULD apply to several different time periods—temporally separated  events—yet, most revelations are actually pretty specific. A goodly portion of these smbolic future predictions refer to comet-collision events or Earth-comet close encounters. And this is as it should be, for comets are cyclic, and the periodicity of comet collisions (regardless of NASA's side-tracking the issue into stopries about asteroid collisions and their preiodicities) is on orderof thousdnds of years. thousand of years, and then WHAM!

Some revelations do refer to people and nations, political bodies, and many refer to secret combinations and real future wars. But, if you actually read what I posted you'd also know that I myself see this ONLY as a partial fulfillment of prophecy. This country will be taken to it's knees, invaded by a combined force of Chinese and others, before 3 years is out. THIS is the fulfillment in full of one event. 3 years into teh invasion, I believe that we get nailed by a REALLY BIG comet, like in olden times (not to be confused with what I hold will be a comet-fragment or small asteroid collisions made to look accidental, but really a clever use of a naturally ocurring phenomena made to look like an accident of nature!).

I fact, the comet disasters that will follow on and after 2006 or thereabouts) will effect the entire planet...will effect us. And THIS will represent the entire fulfillment of these revelations...every jot and tittle of them. But you DIDN'T read what I wrote, nor have you read what I've written in the past, or you'd know this.

As for your apparent "nation-state" chauvinism, as represented by the statement <"Our nation is a great one>," you are simply missing the point. What makes ANY nation great, is it's people, their fair and just application of moral laws, their collective wisdom and humility, their respect of other nations' sovereign rights. What gave us a chance to BE GREAT was our Constitution. ALL that is now going rapidly down the tubes as the "Patriot Act" and the "USA Act" pas the House and Senate, and as BUSH gets his fascist "Homeland Security Agency" up and running. But you are probably too young to recall the Nazis, the Italian fascists, the Japanese empire and Stalin, Mao Tse-Tung...etc.

Any fool can kill...these Arabs have demonstrated this. Yet why do you think America a GREAT nation? The true sign of GREATNESS, one for which America has in the past excelled, is the ability to make PEACE...not the bravado to wage war.

When you speak of greatness, are you referring to a carefully concocted image portrayed by media, some flag-waving stereotypical American at a Republican election campaign, or the face of grimy anti-British rebel guerillas fighting for their freedom from an oppressive monarchy? Or, when you speak of greatness are you actually referring to our sparkling morals as a people, or our spotless record of fairness and evenhandedness in respect to our foreign policies, or the humanity and generosity of those international corporations that exploit third world nations? Do you even know what the Truman Plan was? Don't you find it ironic that we are now talking about allowing Russia into NATO. Do you even know how ridiculous this is? Do you understand what handing Carnivore and Echelon to China and Russia means, and how our GREAT government is planning on spying on EVERY AMERICAN citizen? Is this GREAT?

The covert and overt manipulation of third world countries by American corporations is a matter of historic verity. Did you write letters to their CEOs and BODs to complain to them...or simply buy their merchandise? Other people in third world countries are still suffering due to things like DDT groundwater contaminants and bad pharmaceuticals. America encourages corporations to make lots of money through incentives, and "WE," as the "PEOPLE," haven't stopped them from exploiting the third world.
And our ONCE GREAT NATION once had nobel (well, sort of) politicians, unlike those who are now selling us out for power, money and political favors, empowering third world countries (and especially China) to wipe out our economic stability. In fact we even trained many of those terrorists who crashed our planes kamakasi-style into those buildings. So who's to blame? Who should frustrated people point the finger at, if not "WE THE PEOPLE?" If encouraging the abuse of other nations by such huge corporations is sponsored by our TAX DOLLARS, then perhaps you could tell me WHOM these victims should blame, hmmm?

And the intervention in forming, supporting and toppling governments, is this righteousness? The plotting and scheming, the legal assassinations of the enemies of America by a self-justified and presidentially-decreed CIA, are both legion and legendary. Our backing of despots and dictators—people we could use for our own purposes (like recently in Haiti, with Noreiga, the Phillipines with Marcos...the list is almost endless)—is and always was an EVIL. And these are not conspiracy theories, dear, they are a matter of record! This is not a matter of speculation, it is history. I suggest you educate yourself and stop being so naive. Who do you think set up Suddam Hussein in the first place. How did he get those "chemical weapons?" This is but one more in a long line of MISTAKES we've made.

As for my love of the Constitution, and the IDEALS that America represents, I am 100% patriot. However, if we begin to justify the pollution spewed out by our industries, but deny third world countries the same privilege, is this "fairness," and "goodness?" If when bomb into ashes the capitals of foreign sovereign nations, no matter how much we may like or dislike them, JUST BECAUSE WE MADE TREATIES WITH NATO COUNTRIES (Kosovo), this is UNCONSTITUTIONAL. It is also unconscionable and unjustifiable. It is about NATION building and expansionism. It is about protecting the interests of sprawling CORPORATIONS whose gifts of money are taken by corrupt politicians who reciprocate in kind, This is GREATNESS? And who elected these scumbags? Who is to blame? Who should an angry enemy target with their bombs? We target buildings and their occupants, and excuse the destruction of monuments and death of innocent civilians (although we do apologize, sometimes). Tell me wherein lies the BIG DISCERNIBLE difference? And WHO allows this? Is it not "we the people?" My unfortunate, bourgeois friend. Do you know what the Arabs are saying right now??? I can almost hear them...they are chanting, "<Our nation is a great one>!"

Your zeal for your "country" and your "beliefs" is no different from that of the Arab zealots who bombed us yesterday, except that you've probably NEVER SACRIFICED ANYTHING for your country...have you? I suspect this is the case. They certainly saw themselves as sacrificing for theirs, didn't they? Your patriotism is myopic and based in false assumptions. Have you even read your own constitution? Your moralistic tone is narrow and prejudiced, just like those fundamentalist Arabs. Are you living a moral life, married, law abiding, do you pay a10% tithing, do you pray regularly, do you go out off your way to "feed the poor?" Those Arabs do what they think their religion requires of them, do you do the same? And lastly NO COUNTRY OR GOVERNMENT represents the quintessence of dignity and love.

< I think its unfair of you to assume that the USA is what the bible is talking about and I resent your quotes>

You write that you resent my "quotes?" You must mean you resent my "interpretation" of those "quotes," don't you? Unless you resent the Bible, for those quotes came from the King James version of that auspicious work. Suggestion...? LEARN English, for Pete's sake! You have never applied scholarship to the study your Bible either, I have to assume. Hebrew prophecy was based in metaphor. Christ used allegory and metaphors for everything, this is the very nature of the parable itself. Now, there is literalism in the scriptures, certainly, but the very nature of Hebrew prophecy is based in the use of discernible dualism, and these are accessed through the use of symbols. Christ does not say he will bring Judaism to the next level, after his resurrection and 3 days in the grave, he refers to a Temple being thrown down and rebuilt in three days. Daniel sees a statue of clay and gold, not a NATION? Christ's Church was not a human "body!" Apparently you do NOT READ YOUR SCRIPTURES. So why would you even entertain the idea of an attack on me for my erudition (of which you also know NOTHING)?

EVERYBODY has opinions. Just go to any bar and talk to the drunken sports fans and armchair politicians, they are legion! And uninformed opinions are a dime a dozen. And, uniformed opinions are almost all Americans seem to have these days. And this is THEIR FAULTS, because or our education system, libraries and web-related resources allow anyone with a modicum of intelligence and a reasonable grasp of the English language to research their little hearts out. Do you research, or simply sit in front of the television and let someone else do your thinking for you? The latter is certainly the truth, isn't it? This fact is very clear to me.

If it is what I wrote that really offends you, then I have to conclude you're the one who is "ignorant." If you had developed your intellectual faculties instead of having your hair and nails done, spent time reading "People Magazine" and pulled yourself way from the television set, perhaps you'd realize that there are always TWO SIDES to any conflict. This attack does NOT come in a vacuum. We've been screwing up, (and screwing) Arabs for decades. The British did so before us. This certainly does NOT justify terrorism, nor make the Moslem Arabs and their governments fair or moral either, but to most of them the attacks yesterday were not acts of brutal terrorism, these were justifiable acts of WAR.

So you think America is NOT some filthy Babylon? But our leadership's "fornication" with other corrupt nations, like Russia and China to name only two, has brought this upon us, and we'll soon feel the results of such mindless pandering. And the American people are not innocent victims of such political maneuvering either. Some 80% of the dime-store products in American stores are now made in China...and this with SLAVE LABOR. Most of these "slaves" are political prisoners, people who are striving against the evils of their own empire, and who believe in the same ideals we claim to support. So, by buying such merchandise, are we GOOD or EVIL?

And the first thing the uninformed will do, that MOST irate Americans—who (NOTE) will NOT BE PUTTING THEIR OWN LIVES ON THE LINE ON SOME STINKING DESERT IN THE Middle East—will be is to cry WAR, and beat their drums! And my single reason for even answering you is that I hope SOMEONE else more capable of discerning truth and light from misguided patriotism, is listening out there. Here's the bottom line. THE CHINESE/RUSSIAN backed New World Order consortium(?) (call them/it what you want, the "Globalists" or "One-Worlders," take your pick) WANT US TO GO TO WAR! This is a very cleverly a TRAP. And it is precisely uninformed Americans like you, that will lead us into first regional, then global conflicts that will end in an Armageddon. What a generation of fools we have raised in America!

We are (now) what Mao Tse-Tung once called us, a PAPER TIGER. Only this tiger's gonna get it's collective arses kicked when it decides to take on the greater group of Arab nations. There is a difference between fighting battles, and picking your battles. Ask any trained soldier? And pushing us into a battle now, at our present depleted state of military readiness, is precisely what we are being maneuvered into. And why...? So that our forces can be divided...for the conquering! Watch what happens now. Watch war suddenly break out in Korea or Taipei as soon as we begin fighting in earnest in the Middle-East. What a surprise it will be?

In my experience, it's people like you who NEVER put their own butts on the line? If you were a Nam Vet, or a veteran of any real war, I might sympathize. But I am sure you're just another of the long list of simpering middle-class American drum beaters. If you think this act so outrageous (and it certainly was), then go out and put you LIFE ON The line and join the Marines, or the Navy? Go fight! Sacrifice something really precious to you, like your own children? But count me out. I'll save my ammunition for our real enemies...they'll be landing on our very shores SOON ENOUGH! And, CONSTITUTIONALLY speaking, we have only the right to defend our own borders! Call me a "narrow nationalist," an "isolationist," or any number of labels that have been conveniently invented to get around the fact that we are acting (and have been for more than a century now) beyond the bounds of constitutional law!

But don't criticize my biblical interpretations solely on the basis of misguided patriotism. Just turn on any prime time soap opera or sitcom. Watch the stream of euphemisms catering to homosexuals and adulterers, listen to the justifications of premarital sex and dishonesty, lies and deceit. Watch the soft porn and talk shows that bring together every sort of perversion and twisted love affair, pedophiliac slimeball and their victims in order to sell Viagra and chemical stimulants, and then talk to me about "GREAT NATIONS?" Great is...as great does. And waging war (we do this well, don't we) has nothing to do with greatness, for the King of Kings clearly stated, "blessed are the peacemakers...!" Oh, this is to be take LITERALLY, by the way.

Just remember, before you claim that these are criminals who violated our borders...and that we should go and hunt them in their own countries...what if these terrorists are Iraqis? Who entered who's sovereign borders and dropped bombs...FIRST? Let's face it, this is NOT a nation of angels. If the Arabs are criminals, then are we not at least accomplices, aren't we? Certainly these terrorists should be brought to justice, but my prediction is that those who REALLY backed this venture were the Chinese communists, and this is one fact that will NEVER come out. But it is they who are now backing all these regimes, selling them armaments and ammunition, bio-agents and...eventually, what...NUCLEAR weapons? But who sold them arms FIRST?

This is, as the British like to put it, a "sticky wicket." And we had better tread VERY softly, but carry a big stick. As for this nation being feckless and moral, sorry, I simply cannot buy that which is so conspicuously untrue. If we had wanted Suddam Hussein so badly we'd have put him out of business the last two times we kicked butt over in Iraq. SOMEONE did NOT want this man to fail. I say, look to your corrupt leaders, America. Look for those who are the traitors among you. For these men will surely sell us out as quickly as they will solicit sex from their aides, take money for selling off our military secrets, or make sure their friends in the munitions business (Cheney) will get the juicy contracts to supply the next tyrant we prop us in a third world country.

Perhaps we can start getting even by cleaning up our own country? Perhaps we can start right here at home becoming a "Zion" people, and coming "OUT OF BABYLON," metaphorically speaking, of course? And for all you Bible quoters out there, remember, God never helped fight the wars of a nation, he only assisted righteous PEOPLE fighting evil...through...righteousness.