Editor's note: posts presented by order of receiving date. Because this is strict research, I have included email addresses in hopes to encourage dialogue. Please advise me if the author prefers to have address removed. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Forwarded Message: Subj: SETI Date: 97-07-02 17:20:44 EDT From: ExposeUFOs To: Phikent Kent, I read your post on IUFO. My parents will not let me call long distance but here is a seti phone number off of their web site that you could call to get more information. SETI Institute 2035 Landings Drive Mountain View, CA 94043 USA Tel: (415) 961-6633 Fax: (415) 961-7099 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Subj: CONTACT: 70 Virginis Date: 97-07-03 04:16:00 EDT From: raver187@m-net.arbornet.org To: phikent@aol.com The report you had from that person in England seems to be an echo of the same report from someone in England back in April. It seems one of the tabloids misunderstood something when the SETI Institute said they monitored 70 Virginis for radio signals the tabloid reported that they had detected them. As for the planets yes quite a few planets have been discovered check here: http://www.obspm.fr/planets for a list of all the known and rumoured extrasolar planets and here http://cannon.sfsu.edu/~williams/planetsearch/planetsearch.html for Geoffrey Marcy and Paul Butler (discovers of the 70 Virginis planet) website. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Subj: Re: [*T*G*] ET: CONTACT: Virginis70 Date: 97-07-03 08:22:09 EDT From: alfafox@hermes.uninet.net.mx (Alex Franz) Kent, All of you in the list who wish to have ANY kind of research I'll do it with pleasure. Maybe not all of you know that I work traveling and I stay out from home for 11 days and rest 9. Today I am starting my 9 resting days but I'm not going to be at home because I am living tomorrow to Roswell 50 anniversary. I hope to return back with good news so stand by. Here you are Kent: The most important for you at: http://www.seti-inst.edu/toc.html and http://www.seti-inst.edu/drake-fp.html Some more... Geoffrey W. Marcy Bio-Bibliography at: http://cannon.sfsu.edu/~gmarcy/ http://george.arc.nasa.gov/ss/abw/speakers/marcy/marcy.html At this site you'll find lots of information: http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap960130.html Strong signs of livable planets at: http://www.sjmercury.com/news/space117.htm ''What I find striking is that the interval between discoveries is becoming shorter, rather dramatically,'' he said. ''I wonder what is going to happen tomorrow.'' Discovery on line: http://izzy.online.discovery.com/DCO/doc/1012/world/science/planethunters/planethunt1.3.1.html Discovery of two new planets -- the second and third within the last three months -- proves they aren't rare in our galaxy at: http://pio06.urel.berkeley.edu/documentation/Marcy2.html Planets Found by the Doppler Technique. Since 1987 Geoff Marcy and Paul Butle San Francisco State University at: http://www.physics.sfsu.edu/~gmarcy/planetsearch/planetsearch.html Regards, Alex Franz -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Subj: Re: [*T*G*] ET: CONTACT: Virginis70 Date: 97-07-03 17:16:12 EDT From: Phikent To: alfafox@hermes.uninet.net.mx Thanks Alex, I am following your leads carefully and resulting info has already been posted on http://members.aol.com/phikent/contact.html So far I have received posts that indeed SETI tuned in on 70Vir, but will not yet admit to any signal, meanwhile Marci and crew have somehow given great detail about the 70Vir sun itself, much like Sol, and even speculate the size of immense plant(s), as well as speculating that it/they might be water worlds. How extra-solar planetary search can get this kind of detail is a puzzle unless SETI/NASA has some advanced search system that we know little about. Kent Steadman -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Subj: Virginis 70 - not a match! Date: 97-07-04 13:51:37 EDT From: jferris@mindspring.com To: Phikent@aol.com Hi Kent, its me again, I just got a post from Doug: >Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 12:55:38 -0400 (EDT) >To: jferris@mindspring.com >From: DKP >Subject: Virginis 70b Located >Joni, > >I have located the star Virginis 70b. The attached bitmap file shows the >astronomy program's printout, after I manipulated the screen, adding the >necessary titles. > >Unfortunately, there is absolutely no coorelation between the starmap on the >bottom of the pyramid and anything in the constellation Virgo. So, I guess that is out! Happy July 4th! Best Regards, Joni Hi Kent, I have told Doug about the Virginis70 post, and I am wondering if the star map he says is on the bottom of the pyramid object he has could be that star system. Now, as you can see from his post do you have the right ascension and declination of the star? Can you see what he is asking? Can you get back to me on this? Best Regards, Joni >Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 09:41:22 -0400 (EDT) >X-Sender: dparrish@main.ismi.net >Mime-Version: 1.0 >To: jferris@mindspring.com >From: DKP >Subject: Virginis 70 and the Pyramid's Starmap > >Hello Joni and Stephen! > >I hope you have a wonderful 4th of July Holiday! > >Last night, after having read your post regarding Virginis 70b, I went into >my astronomy program, but the database does not contain information on that >particular star since it has come into prominence only lately. I went out on >the net, searching several locations under "Virginis 70" but again, I was >relatively unsuccessful. > >I printed out from my astronomy program a map of the constellation Virgo, >which I assume contains Virginis 70 somewhere. That may be an incorrect >assumption on my part, however. That's as far as I can take it. > >I need the right ascension and declination of the star in order to locate >it, or its SAO (Standard Astronomical Object) name or its designation in the >NGC (New Galactic Catalog). Once I have some stable information on it, I can >plot it in the program. > >Woulf Kent have it? Any suggestions? > >Warm Wishes--it's only in the low 60's here this morning! > >Doug -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Subj: Re: Virginis 70 and the Pyramid's Starmap Date: 97-07-04 16:07:13 EDT From: Phikent To: jferris@mindspring.com File: VIRGO2.JPG (9880 bytes) DL Time (TCP/IP): < 1 minute In a message dated 97-07-04 12:03:52 EDT, you write: << Hi Kent, I have told Doug about the Virginis70 post, and I am wondering if the star map he says is on the bottom of the pyramid object he has could be that star system. Now, as you can see from his post do you have the right ascension and declination of the star? Can you see what he is asking? Can you get back to me on this? Best Regards, >> Okay it's in Virgo (figures) Gonna try to send you the starmap, if you can't receive check: http://members.aol.com/phikent/contact.html I'll post it there shortly Also this: 70 Virginis B was discovered in January of 1996 by (who else) Goeff Marcy and Paul Butler. It is a very, very massive planet, roughly 6.4 times the mass of Jupiter. It is .43 AUs from the star 70 Virginis, and has an orbital period of 116.7 days. It's average temperature, while not as hot as Pegasi, is 85 degrees Celsius. Scientists think that liquid water is possible, although the temperature is too high for the planet too support life. The planet is suspected to have moons as large as Mars, or even Earth, and it has potential to support life. Below (surprise, surprise) is the data with which they decided 70 Virginis b may exist as a planet. http://www.the-cure.com/OBSERVATORY.html 70 Virginis planet is three times as big again. both are about 35 light years from earth. They were discovered by professors Geoffrey Marcy of San Francisco State University and Paul Butler from the University of California, Berkeley; this is only the second time that existence of a planet outside our solar system has been demonstrated.  Soon after the planets' discovery was announced, SETI (the search for extra terrestrial intelligence) ran a quick check on their records, and discovered a number of anomalous signals coming from the direction of 70 Virginis. While warning that there is only a slight chance that the signals are alien in origin, the team from SETI SERENDIP 3 project has announced that they intend to carry out a new search of the 70 virginis area... SERENDIP is currently piggybacking on the 1,000-foot dish at Arecibo Observatory in Puerto Rico, the largest radio telescope in the world. Kent Steadman Research page: http://members.aol.com/phikent/contact.html -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Subj: Re: [*T*G*] ET: CONTACT: Virginis70 Date: 97-07-04 17:01:28 EDT From: alfafox@hermes.uninet.net.mx (Alex Franz) Reply-to: alfafox@hermes.uninet.net.mx To: Phikent@aol.com Kent, I would like to know how earth technology (radio signals) were given to supposedintelligent beings at a 35 years light distance! Who was who teach them our reception radio wave equipment and frequencies capability? Aren't those mere speculations, or we for sure know that they have the same transmission and reception equipment? What do you mean by 'anomalous signals'? Alex Franz -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Subj: Re: [*T*G*] ET: CONTACT: Virginis70 Date: 97-07-04 18:14:08 EDT From: Phikent To: alfafox@hermes.uninet.net.mx In a message dated 97-07-04 17:01:28 EDT, you write: << Kent, I would like to know how earth technology (radio signals) were given to supposed intelligent beings at a 35 years light distance! Who was who teach them our reception radio wave equipment and frequencies capability? Aren't those mere speculations, or we for sure know that they have the same transmission and reception equipment? What do you mean by 'anomalous signals'? Alex Franz >> Your questions are also shared by myself. Who knows what kind of signals that would trigger SETI scientists curiosity--who knows, maybe they have little to do with what we normally consider radio waves. As to the anomalous signals I'm not sure. The above is a quote from http://www.the-cure.com/OBSERVATORY.html Kent -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Editors note: the following post was sent to many newsgroups on July 4, 1997. Dear Friends: Hope I'm not being a thorn to this list, but I am involved in intriguing quest that might be pertinent to us all. The deeper I dig the more fascinating. As you might know I'm researching rumored anomalous signals that SETI retrieved from the star 70 Virginis in the Virgo constellation. After this weekend or when there is enough data in the arsenal, a call to SETI might be useful. A qualified scientist should best make this call. If you know of a good person, I'd be grateful. Also we are trying to get the precise astronomical coordinates of 70 Virginis. Although I have a starmap posted on the website I do not have detailed coordinates. Aparently Dr. Geoff Marci at San Francisco State and Dr. Paul Butler, U of C, Berkeley, made the discovery of a planetary system in 70 Virginis. Immediately thereafter SETI was tapped for data retrieved from this star as a result of SERENDIP 3 project initiated at Berkeley and now installed in the Arecibo Observatory in Puerto Rico, the largest radio telescope in the world. Any help woud be appreciated So the extrasolar planetary project and SETI seem to be intimately tied together. Please see http://members.aol.com/phikent/contact.html for research and notes. Kent Steadman recent info: 70 Virginis planet is three times as big again. both are about 35 light years from earth. They were discovered by professors Geoffrey Marcy of San Francisco State University and Paul Butler from the University of California, Berkeley; this is only the second time that existence of a planet outside our solar system has been demonstrated. Soon after the planets' discovery was announced, SETI (the search for extra terrestrial intelligence)ran a quick check on their records, and discovered a number of anomalous signals coming from the direction of 70 Virginis. While warning that there is only a slight chance that the signals are alien in origin, the team from SETI SERENDIP 3 project has announced that they intend to carry out a new search of the 70 virginis area... ---------------------------------------------------------------- 70 Virginis B was discovered in January of 1996 by (who else) Goeff Marcy and Paul Butler. It is a very massive planet, roughly 6.4 times the mass of Jupiter. It is .43 AUs from the star 70 Virginis, and has an orbital period of 116.7 days. It's average temperature, while not as hot as Pegasi, is 85 degrees Celsius. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Subj: Re: [ASP] PP: Reason For The Phoenix Projects? Date: 97-07-05 22:24:36 EDT From: snoball@idt.net (Robert Drake) Reply-to: snoball@idt.net To: Phikent@aol.com > << o A massive human factor study was begun at Brookhaven National > Laboratories on Long Island, New York. It was known as the Phoenix > Project. > >> > This ties in with my latest obsession the SETI scan of 70 Virginis, with > anomalous signals detected. One of the key, SETI projects is called > "Phoenix." Wonder if there is a connection? Hi Kent, Good question. When I saw this, I wondered the same thing. I'd be guessing past this point. Best regards, Bob -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Subj: Re: [ASP] PP: Reason For The Phoenix Projects? Subj: Re your request for info on VIRGINIS 70 Date: 97-07-05 18:32:00 EDT From: bcornet@monmouth.com (Bruce Cornet) Dear Kent, Below is an excerpt from a book I wrote about my personal spiritual and ET experiences. I have been trying to understand what I wrote and decipher the meaning, because it is not at all clear why I was told these things. A minister, Bill Donahue, of the New Age Christian Village Church sent out flyers in advance of his Sunday teachings regarding the discovery of three Sun-like stars with planets. I am not sure how this information may help you with your specific questions about 70 Virginis, but well before anyone reported alleged signals coming from that area of the cosmos, Donahue saw a significance tantamount to the Magi following the star of Bethlehem and predicting the arrival of the anointed one based on the stars (astronomy, then known as astrology). I modified the last two paragraphs somewhat by adding names and explanations that are later discussed in my book. These names (KaRa, NoRa, Anora, and Tamara) have powerful significance to me, but may have little or no meaning to anyone else. What have you found out since posting your 3 July request? And did you construct the phikent/contact.html website? Well done! Who else is involved in the "we". Yours truly, Bruce Cornet ------------- PROPHECY FULFILLED? In October 1995 Swiss astronomers Michel Mayor and Didier Queloz announced the discovery of the first Sun-like star with a planet in the constellation Pegasus (51 Pagasi). Three months later Geoff Marcy of San Francisco State University and Paul Butler of the University of California at Berkeley chimed in with two more, one in Ursa Major (47 Ursae Majoris) and the other in Virgo (70 Virginis). Revelation 6.2: And I saw, and behold, a white horse, and its rider had a bow; and a crown was given to him, and he went out conquering and to conquer. Revelation 19.11: Then I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse! He who sat upon it is called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he judges and makes war. His eyes are like a flame of fire, and on his head are many diadems; and he has a name inscribed which no one knows but himself. He is clad in a robe dipped in blood, and the name by which he is called is The Word of God. Pegasus is the white horse, and the Sun Star 51 Pegasi has been identified in the heavens, discovered by astronomers (cf. Magi). Pegasos (Gr.) is the fabled winged white horse of the Muses. Pege (Gr.) means water, stream, spring, tear; while pegos (Gr.) means strong, solid. Pegasus also refers to the Chief swiftly coming on a white horse, and the discovery of three Sun-like stars with planets came very swiftly indeed! Symbolically this discovery in Pegasus (51 Pegasi) prophetically heralds: "The Return of the Power" and is a sign for the return of the One called Faithful and True. Bill Donahue of the New Age Christian Village Church interprets this sign as representing the astronomical "Second Coming of Jesus." He interprets the brightest stars of Pegasus thusly: Markab (the saddle) means "returning from afar." Scheat (the shoulder) means "one who goes and returns." Enif (the nose) means "the Branch." Zechariah 3.8: "behold, I will bring my servant the Branch. For behold, upon the stone which I have set before Joshua, upon a single stone with seven facets, I will engrave its inscription, says the Lord of hosts, and I will remove the guilt of this land in a single day." Jeremiah 33.15: "In those days and at that time I will cause a righteous Branch to spring forth for David; and he shall execute justice and righteousness in the land." 70 Virginis is the second Sun Star discovered in three months. According to Bill Donahue it represents the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary. There are seven bright stars in the constellation Virgo: Spica, Zavijava, Porrima, a gM3, Vindemiatrix, Zaniah, and Syrma. According to Donahue these stars refer to the Seven Churches of Revelation. Virgo (Virginis) recognized in ancient Egypt as a maiden, sometimes perhaps as the goddess Isis, is seen as a woman in many other early folklores. This constellation in classical myth was Astraea, goddess of justice, daughter of Jupiter (Zeus) and Themis (Artemis, the hunter and goddess virgin of the Universe who "roams through the mountains of your mind slaying the beasts or evil thoughts"). Artemis is the twin sister of Apollo, the Greek Sungod who Bill Donahue says is the mythological Jesus. Donahue thinks that the Greeks made up the story about Jesus, and one human became known as Jesus, which only added to the Roman belief that Gods could become manifest as humans. This interpretation creates some confusion, however: Is Jesus the brother of Artemis, who is Isis (KaRa), or is he her Son (the mythological Horus)? The third Sun Star discovered in three months is 47 Ursae Majoris, located at the south of Ursa Major near the hind paw of The Great Bear. Bill Donahue interprets this star to represent the daughter (Anora) of the Virgin Mother (Holy Spirit) and Son. According to him, she is Astraea of mythology, who is part of Virgo (Artemis), who Zeus made into The Great Bear. Could this daughter be the Navora (anagram for Nova Ra or New Star) in the book, God in female form, by Dr. Michael Northcutt? Donahue says her constellation is the Little Bear, or Ursa Minor, which contains the pole star (North Star: NoRa). If that is true, her human Earth name (Tamara) and origin should be linked to The Great Bear, known as Russia. Donahue later interpreted Ursa Minor to be Arcas (the North Star), the son of God, born of virgin mother Callisto, represented on Earth by Mary. Could both interpretations be correct? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Subj: Re: See what KAnder triggered: 70 Virginis Date: 97-07-05 22:03:00 EDT Hi pal-- Dianne and I in April attended a talk at the Whole Life Expo that Michael Lindemann gave - among other things he mentioned 70 Virginis as one of 6 or 8 candidates for planets being checked out by scientists who are convinced we'll find LIFE, as opposed to mere planetary satellites... I forwarded your request to him, and asked him to point you in the direction of the appropriate scientific minds... Take care darlin' Annie The Tailspun Hobbit -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Subj: Re: CONTACT: 70 Virginis Date: 97-07-05 23:58:15 EDT From: CodeUFO@aol.com Kent, There is an astronomer at the U of W who is sympathetic to this kind of thing. I'm sorry I can't remember his name but last year he was making the radio talk show circuit because of some controversial project he was involved in. So there is a bit of a trail by which to track him down. I know that's not much to go on but maybe it will help. Maybe someone remembers his name. Gary -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Subj: Re: CONTACT: 70 Virginis Date: 97-07-06 04:23:47 EDT From: BKamin3789@aol.com Kent, You have done some good work here. My hat is off to you.. I think your on to something. Will be interesting to find out what they are hearing about that place. The only prob I have is a mass 4 times Jupiter. Hard to realize a planet that big that close to a sun. BK -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Subj: Re: CONTACT: 70 Virginis Date: 97-07-06 04:30:31 EDT From: Phikent BK: Me too on the size---I don't know how they figure any of these details unless they've sent a carrier pigeon up there. Kent -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Subj: CONTACT: 70 Virginis (referred by Bruce Cornet) Date: 97-07-06 20:12:44 EDT From: Phikent To: metares@well.com CC: bcornet@monmouth.com(brucecornet) Dear Dr. Van Flandern: On the advice of Bruce Cornet I would like to ask you about mysteries involving the discovery of planets around 70 Virginis and possible anomalous signals in that region as scanned by SETI. Has SETI, or Dr. Marci and Dr. Butler continued to examine the 70 Virginis region? What is the nature of these strange signals? How have Dr. Marci and Dr. Butler been able to retrieve such detailed information about this distant planet in orbit around 70 Virginis (please see notes)? I would be most grateful for your insights and possible help with addressing a query to others in the astrophysics community. *Please see notes and communications below. Sincerely, Kent Steadman related website: CONTACT: VIRGINIS 70 http://members.aol.com/phikent/contact.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- *OBSERVATIONS AND QUESTIONS (including wild leaps) Kent Steadman In my preliminary research I am finding a strong correlation between the the SETI institute's project SERENDIP designed in Berkeley and piggybacked on 1,000-foot dish at Arecibo Observatory in Puerto Rico, the largest radio telescope in the world, AND the Marci-Butler team extrasolar planetary search. Dr. Geoff Marci is the astrophysicist recognized for his extrasolar planetary discoveries; I've always wondered what Dr. Paul Butler's role is on the team? Well Paul Butler is from U.C. Berkeley! Eureka! SETI! So the scenario reported goes like this: "Soon after the planets' discovery was announced, SETI (the search for extra terrestrial intelligence) ran a quick check on their records, and discovered a number of anomalous signals coming from the direction of 70 Virginis. While warning that there is only a slight chance that the signals are alien in origin, the team from SETI SERENDIP 3 project has announced that they intend to carry out a new search of the 70 virginis area... " HOWEVER: The characteristics of the the discovered planet around 70 Virginis is described in AWESOME detail--in fact, too detailed for a planet so far away. "Defining characteristics of this planet include that it is at least eight times the mass of Jupiter, its orbit is much smaller than Jupiter's, and its temperature allows water to exist in liquid form - like on the Earth. Life on Earth is based on liquid water - could life exist here too?" So I'm wondering which comes first the chicken or the egg, the signal or the planet? Does the SETI SERENDIP scanning of the heavens trigger the search for the planet instead of the other way around? And what kind of probe system is SETI-extrasolar REALLY using--same old-fashioned Hertzian wave signals (vibrating banjo strings)---or something else altogether? "After completing his work in Polyphase and High Frequency Alternating Currents, Tesla made a discovery which forever altered the course and nature of his experimental research. Whether purposefully or inadvertantly, this singular discovery has been completely overlooked by those who claim to know his work best. A single article and statements made in several of his lectures affirm the conviction that Tesla, while working with violently abrupt electrical discharges, discovered A NEW FORCE." SECRETS OF COLD WAR TECHNOLOGY by Gerry Vassilatos TESLA: GIFT FROM THE COSMOS? http://members.aol.com/phikent/tesla.htm I'm thinking the key to the mystery might lie in Tesla and Maxwell theory--prior to when the Michelson-Morley experiment tossed away the fact of aether. Was this a diversion? see: Dramatis Personae of Aether Drift http://carnap.umd.edu:90/phil250/aether_drift/dramatis_personae.html And my ultimate question is: can ordinary folks, outside the ivory tower, sometimes make astonishing CONTACT with other worlds using some principle within mind itself? "At the basis of matter exists mind." Lorentz Kent Steadman P.S. help much needed--especially to locate a credential-astronomer to call SETI. I think such a call placed by an artist like myself might be wasted. --------------------------------------------------- Subj: Re: Re your request for info on VIRGINIS 70 Date: 97-07-05 21:42:11 EDT From: Phikent To: bcornet@monmouth.com In a message dated 97-07-05 18:32:00 EDT, you write: << What have you found out since posting your 3 July request? And did you construct the phikent/contact.html website? Well done! Who else is involved in the "we". >> I quickly constructed the page as a workshop to inquire about this 70 Viginis matter which all started by a wee rumor and question in another newsgroup. The "we" refers to much input I received from others, including, gratefully, yourself. I want to study the ideas you just sent in the larger body of your text, and then I'll get back. Myself, a dreamer and intuitive, I launch into this more scientific quest--kinda out of my league actually, but the promptings are strong. Here's what I've figured out so far--but only preliminary--a three day search thus far. Why is this driving me? I'm not sure. Kent Steadman ---------------------------------------- Subj: Re 70 Virginis and an astronomer. Date: 97-07-06 18:23:04 EDT From: bcornet@monmouth.com (Bruce Cornet) Reply-to: bcornet@monmouth.com To: phikent@aol.com (Kent Steadman) Dear Kent, Go to Tom Van Flandern's home page. He is a astronomer who wrote a book, Dark matter, missing planets & new comets: paradozed resolved, origins illuminated. http://www.planetarymysteries.com/vanflandern.html His email is: metares@well.com The Meta Research Site : http://www.metaresearch.org Tell him I sent you. He can help you. Yours truly, Bruce ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Subj: CONTACT: 70 Virginis (referred by Bruce Cornet) Date: 07/06/97 To: metares@well.com CC: bcornet@monmouth.com (Bruce Cornet) Dear Dr. Van Flandern: On the advice of Bruce Cornet I would like to ask you about mysteries involving the discovery of planets around 70 Virginis and possible anomalous signals in that region as scanned by SETI. Has SETI, or Dr. Marci and Dr. Butler continued to examine the 70 Virginis region? What is the nature of these strange signals? How have Dr. Marci and Dr. Butler been able to retrieve such detailed information about this distant planet in orbit around 70 Virginis (please see notes)? I would be most grateful for your insights and possible help with addressing a query to others in the astrophysics community. *Please see notes and communications below. Sincerely, Kent Steadman related website: CONTACT: VIRGINIS 70 http://members.aol.com/phikent/contact.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- *OBSERVATIONS AND QUESTIONS (including wild leaps) Kent Steadman In my preliminary research I am finding a strong correlation between the the SETI institute's project SERENDIP designed in Berkeley and piggybacked on 1,000-foot dish at Arecibo Observatory in Puerto Rico, the largest radio telescope in the world, AND the Marci-Butler team extrasolar planetary search. Dr. Geoff Marci is the astrophysicist recognized for his extrasolar planetary discoveries; I've always wondered what Dr. Paul Butler's role is on the team? Well Paul Butler is from U.C. Berkeley! Eureka! SETI! So the scenario reported goes like this: "Soon after the planets' discovery was announced, SETI (the search for extra terrestrial intelligence) ran a quick check on their records, and discovered a number of anomalous signals coming from the direction of 70 Virginis. While warning that there is only a slight chance that the signals are alien in origin, the team from SETI SERENDIP 3 project has announced that they intend to carry out a new search of the 70 virginis area... " HOWEVER: The characteristics of the the discovered planet around 70 Virginis is described in AWESOME detail--in fact, too detailed for a planet so far away. "Defining characteristics of this planet include that it is at least eight times the mass of Jupiter, its orbit is much smaller than Jupiter's, and its temperature allows water to exist in liquid form - like on the Earth. Life on Earth is based on liquid water - could life exist here too?" So I'm wondering which comes first the chicken or the egg, the signal or the planet? Does the SETI SERENDIP scanning of the heavens trigger the search for the planet instead of the other way around? And what kind of probe system is SETI-extrasolar REALLY using--same old-fashioned Hertzian wave signals (vibrating banjo strings)---or something else altogether? "After completing his work in Polyphase and High Frequency Alternating Currents, Tesla made a discovery which forever altered the course and nature of his experimental research. Whether purposefully or inadvertantly, this singular discovery has been completely overlooked by those who claim to know his work best. A single article and statements made in several of his lectures affirm the conviction that Tesla, while working with violently abrupt electrical discharges, discovered A NEW FORCE." SECRETS OF COLD WAR TECHNOLOGY by Gerry Vassilatos TESLA: GIFT FROM THE COSMOS? http://members.aol.com/phikent/tesla.htm I'm thinking the key to the mystery might lie in Tesla and Maxwell theory--prior to when the Michelson-Morley experiment tossed away the fact of aether. Was this a diversion? see: Dramatis Personae of Aether Drift http://carnap.umd.edu:90/phil250/aether_drift/dramatis_personae.html And my ultimate question is: can ordinary folks, outside the ivory tower, sometimes make astonishing CONTACT with other worlds using some principle within mind itself? "At the basis of matter exists mind." Lorentz Kent Steadman P.S. help much needed--especially to locate a credential-astronomer to call SETI. I think such a call placed by an artist like myself might be wasted. ----------------------------------------------------------- Subj: Re: Re your request for info on VIRGINIS 70 Date: 97-07-05 21:42:11 EDT From: Phikent To: bcornet@monmouth.com In a message dated 97-07-05 18:32:00 EDT, you write: << What have you found out since posting your 3 July request? And did you construct the phikent/contact.html website? Well done! Who else is involved in the "we". >> I quickly constructed the page as a workshop to inquire about this 70 Viginis matter which all started by a wee rumor and question in another newsgroup. The "we" refers to much input I received from others, including, gratefully, yourself. I want to study the ideas you just sent in the larger body of your text, and then I'll get back. Myself, a dreamer and intuitive, I launch into this more scientific quest--kinda out of my league actually, but the promptings are strong. Here's what I've figured out so far--but only preliminary--a three day search thus far. Why is this driving me? I'm not sure. Kent Steadman --------------------------------------------------------------------- Subj: Re 70 Virginis and an astronomer. Date: 97-07-06 18:23:04 EDT From: bcornet@monmouth.com (Bruce Cornet) Reply-to: bcornet@monmouth.com To: phikent@aol.com (Kent Steadman) Dear Kent, Go to Tom Van Flandern's home page. He is a astronomer who wrote a book, Dark matter, missing planets & new comets: paradozed resolved, origins illuminated. http://www.planetarymysteries.com/vanflandern.html His email is: metares@well.com The Meta Research Site : http://www.metaresearch.org Tell him I sent you. He can help you. Yours truly, Bruce ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- Date: Sun, 6 Jul 1997 10:39:26 -0400 (EDT) To: skywatch@mail.phoenix.net From: DKP Subject: Re: Skywatch: CONTACT: 70 Virginis, et. al. If others out there relate better to graphics than to words, the following URL has excellent graphics AND information regarding the extra-solar planetary systems, something just short of a dozen so far. The information supplied is sufficient enough to be entered into an astronomy program, will locate the various extra-solar systems and display their positions on your computer screen if you have a program which allows you to enter additional right ascension (R.A.) and declination (dec.) data. http://www.empire.net/~whatmoug/Extrasolar/extrasolar_visions.html Data are supplied for the following: 70 Virginis Gliese 229 51 Pegasi Lalande 21185 47 Ursae Majoris 16 Cygni 53 Cancri PSR 1257 + 12 Soon, information and graphics for the following will be forthcoming: Q0957 + 561 Beta Pictoris Tau Bootes The site is worthwhile and well worth the visit. Doug Parrish Michigan Director / Skywatch International ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Subj: Re: CONTACT: 70 Virginis Date: 97-07-08 11:17:48 EDT From: raver187@m-net.arbornet.org (Joe LeSesne) To: Phikent@aol.com On Thu, 3 Jul 1997 Phikent@aol.com wrote: > Thanks, > > I'm trying to get to the bottom of this. I'll let the website ride for > awhile to see what it stirs up. The fact that SETI actually monitored 70 > Virginis is for myself new information. > > Kent Steadman > Contact Virginis 70 > http://members.aol.com/phikent/contact.html > Kent, I appreciate your efforts in this but I assure you it's a non-story. As for SETI monitoring 70 Virginis you might be intersted to know that SETI monitors all the stars that have been found to have planets. Sometimes they've monitored the star before it was announced to have planets. Why is that? Because both the SETI astronomers and the ones looking for extrasolar planets have similar criteria in the choice of stars that they monitor. They look at Sunlike stars that are nearby so nearly every sunlike star that is found to have planets will have been studied or will be studied by SETI at some point. For this reason when the SETI Institute Project Phoenix was in Austrailia it monitored Zeta Reticuli, not because the "greys" supposedly originate there. It just so happens Zeta 1 and Zeta 2 Reticuli are nearby Sunlike stars. Hopes this clears things up. joe an amateur astronomer with a keen interst in UFO's and SETI ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Subj: Re: CONTACT: 70 Virginis Date: 97-07-08 22:31:19 EDT From: Phikent To: raver187@m-net.arbornet.org In a message dated 97-07-08 11:17:48 EDT, you write: << Subj: Re: CONTACT: 70 Virginis Date: 97-07-08 11:17:48 EDT From: raver187@m-net.arbornet.org (Joe LeSesne) To: Phikent@aol.com On Thu, 3 Jul 1997 Phikent@aol.com wrote: > Thanks, > > I'm trying to get to the bottom of this. I'll let the website ride for > awhile to see what it stirs up. The fact that SETI actually monitored 70 > Virginis is for myself new information. > > Kent Steadman > Contact Virginis 70 > http://members.aol.com/phikent/contact.html > Kent, I appreciate your efforts in this but I assure you it's a non-story. As for SETI monitoring 70 Virginis you might be intersted to know that SETI monitors all the stars that have been found to have planets. Sometimes they've monitored the star before it was announced to have planets. Why is that? Because both the SETI astronomers and the ones looking for extrasolar planets have similar criteria in the choice of stars that they monitor. They look at Sunlike stars that are nearby so nearly every sunlike star that is found to have planets will have been studied or will be studied by SETI at some point. For this reason when the SETI Institute Project Phoenix was in Austrailia it monitored Zeta Reticuli, not because the "greys" supposedly originate there. It just so happens Zeta 1 and Zeta 2 Reticuli are nearby Sunlike stars. Hopes this clears things up. joe an amateur astronomer with a keen interst in UFO's and SETI >> Got any DETAILS, re, Project Phoenix was in Austrailia it monitored Zeta Reticuli, not because the "greys" supposedly originate there. It just so happens Zeta 1 and Zeta 2 Reticuli are nearby Sunlike stars. In fact where DOES SETI post the regions that the've scanned and the resulting signals? SERENDIP appears to be public funded because of the project's tie to U.C. Berkeley faculty. Golly gosh must be plenty of information released to the public. Right? Another quest, SETI/Zeta Reticuli. Australia! Hmmmmmm. Maybe those blokes over there are more loose in the lip. Deyo! Got to get ahold of Stan Deyo. He might know something...... Kent ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Subj: Re: Seeking info on 70 Virginis (fwd) Date: 97-07-08 01:19:06 EDT From: n6tx@setileague.org (Dr. H. Paul Shuch) To: bdenzler@acpub.duke.edu CC: rcf@tide1.eventide.com, phikent@aol.com Your question regarding 70 Virginis was forwarded to me by SETI League president Richard Factor. This is one of those myths which just won't go away. It was based upon a remark taken out of context by a British journalist. Let me try to set the record straight about 70 Virginis: When the planet at 70Vir was discovered, Dan Werthimer of U.C. Berkeley SERENDIP project commented (it was at the January 1996 AAAS meeting in Baltimore, as I recall) that SERENDIP had already looked closely at 70Vir at 435 MHz, and that all the signals detected were statistically consistent with background noise. "Aha!" must have thought some journalist, "signals HAVE been detected!" That's what got reported in the newspapers in the UK, and it keeps surfacing. No signals, folks, just noise. (But that doesn't mean we shouldn't keep looking). BTW, when I've related this incident at conferences, I've been labeled "part of the Government coverup"! If you post this explanation to the UFO List, please be sure to assure them I'm not. Regards, H. Paul Shuch, Ph.D. Executive Director, The SETI League, Inc. ------------------------------- H. Paul Shuch, Ph.D. Executive Director, The SETI League, Inc. 433 Liberty Street, PO Box 555, Little Ferry NJ 07643 USA voice (201) 641-1770; fax (201) 641-1771; URL http://www.setileague.org/ email work: n6tx@setileague.org; home: drseti@csrlink.net "We Know We're Not Alone!" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- In a message dated 97-07-08 01:19:06 EDT, n6tx@setileague.org (Dr. H. Paul Shuch) writes: << Subj: Re: Seeking info on 70 Virginis (fwd) Date: 97-07-08 01:19:06 EDT From: n6tx@setileague.org (Dr. H. Paul Shuch) To: bdenzler@acpub.duke.edu CC: rcf@tide1.eventide.com, phikent@aol.com >Your question regarding 70 Virginis was forwarded to me by SETI League >president Richard Factor. This is one of those myths which just won't go > away. It was based upon a remark taken out of context by a British >journalist. Let me try to set the record straight about 70 Virginis: > When the planet at 70Vir was discovered, Dan Werthimer of U.C. >Berkeley SERENDIP project commented (it was at the January 1996 AAAS >meeting in Baltimore, as I recall) that SERENDIP had already looked closely >at 70Vir at 435 MHz, and that all the signals detected were statistically >consistent with background noise. "Aha!" must have thought some >journalist, "signals HAVE been detected!" That's what got reported in the >newspapers in the UK, and it keeps surfacing. No signals, folks, just >noise. (But that doesn't mean we shouldn't keep looking). 1. What UK publication broke the Virginis/SETI story? Mainstream? 2. Does Dr. Paul Butler, U.C. Berkeley, have input into the SETI agenda in conjunction with the search for extrasolar planetary search. How does this work? Does SETI ever cue Dr. Geoff Marci and Dr. Paul Butler to look in regions where anomalous signals have been detected? Which comes first the signal or the planet? note (not yours, I realize) from: http://www.the-cure.com/OBSERVATORY.html soon after the planets' discovery was announced, seti (the search for extra terrestrial intelligence) ran a quick check on their records, and discovered a number of anomalous signals coming from the direction of 70 virginis. (joe mcnally - fortean times magazine) 3. What is Dan Werthimer's role; ie, what is the mission of SERENDIP, and does SERENDIP work hand-in-hand towards finding remote planets? 4. You indicate that SETI will continue to scan 70 Virginis. What is the objective, or why the additional curiosity? Note (not yours, I realize) from: http://www.the-cure.com/OBSERVATORY.html seti's serendip 3 project has announced that they intend to carry out a new search of the 70 virginis area... (joe mcnally - fortean times magazine) 5. As reported by NASA(?) on URL: http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap960130.html "The planet, designated 70 Vir b for short, was discovered by very slight periodic shifts in its colors. Defining characteristics of this planet include that it is at least eight times the mass of Jupiter, it's orbit is much smaller than Jupiter's, and it's temperature allows water to exist in liquid form - like on the Earth. Life on Earth is based on liquid water - could life exist here too?" How are such details such as size, mass, temperature, possibility of water, etc., determined about a world so distant? Did SETI data influence these amazing observations? 6. And last but most important: where have anomalous signal been found? Many of us are still trying to deal with "teasing information" dating back as far as Project OZMA. After all you indicate: "We Know We're Not Alone!" What do you know? > BTW, when I've related this incident at conferences, I've been >labeled "part of the Government coverup"! If you post this explanation to >the UFO List, please be sure to assure them I'm not. > Regards, > H. Paul Shuch, Ph.D. > Executive Director, The SETI League, Inc. I will post your entire clarification at: http://members.aol.com/phikent/contact.html Thank you for help in understanding. Responses to my above questions would be valuable to us all who are now reeling from the barrage of new astronomical information. Kent Steadman Faculty, emeritus, Fresno City College, CA (1966-88) http://members.aol.com/phikent/contact.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Subj: Skywatch: [In_Search_Of] SETI signals Date: 97-07-09 02:17:11 EDT From: skywatch@mail.phoenix.net (SKYWATCH Post Only) Reply-to: skywatch@mail.phoenix.net ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- From: bhamilto@pcshs.com Date: Tue, 08 Jul 97 11:05:50 -0700 Subject: [In_Search_Of] SETI signals To: skywatch@phoenix.net Cc: hispeed@netwrx.net, gilgamesh@cyberconnect.com, mike@marion.org, xalium@netwrx.net, satmike@goodnet.com, mlopez@extremezone.com The following are e-mail threads of Q&A with a SETI scientist. I asked him how they could help us with UFO SETI. Here is the exchange: Dear Dr. Shuch, I read your response to the misreporting by the press of signals from 70 Virginis and thank you for the clarification as we have all seen how the press can alter signals(!) We are just as interested as you are in the discovery of extraterrestrial intelligence though we pursue this in the more scientifically unacceptable UFO domain. I just wanted to report to you, in all sincerity, that on several occasions we have signaled these UFOs sometimes using a light-beam modulator and received responses. From this we have seen intelligent guidance (this does not mean we have proven an extraterrestrial origin for these craft), and I was wondering how we could take such experiments to a level where we could get some help from the scientific community or is the subject so taboo with them that such is precluded. I'll forward to you further discussion on 70Vir which resulted from that particular email. >I was wondering how we could take such experiments >to a level where we could get some help from the scientific community >or is the subject so taboo with them that such is precluded. That's a bit out of my league, Bill. Suggest you contact MUFON. Good luck. >>1. What UK publication broke the Virginis/SETI story? Mainstream? > >A mainstream newspaper, NOT a tabloid. Sorry, I don't recall which >one. > >>2. Does Dr. Paul Butler, U.C. Berkeley, have input into the SETI >>agenda in conjunction with the search for extrasolar planetary search. >> How does this work? Does SETI ever cue Dr. Geoff Marci and Dr. Paul >>Butler to look in regions where anomalous signals have been detected? >>Which comes first the signal or the planet? > > The planet, where there's any coupling whatever, but the two generally operate independently. SETI candidate signals usually cannot be associated with a single, specific star; the beamwidths of the antennas are too broad. (Even the Big Ear radio telescope at Ohio State University, one of the narrowest, has about five stars within its field of view at any given time). Since interesting signals can generally be narrowed down only to a general *region*, we don't provide much input to the planet hunters. And since they already know which nearby stars are most Sun-like and of the right age, mass, temperature combination to form planets, they don't really need our input. As it happens, the star catalogs used by the targeted search SETI folk and the planet hunters have a good deal of overlap anyway. > On the other hand, when confirmed planets are announced, we do one of two things: > (1) review data for past observations of the region of the sky containing that particular star, > (2) absent such past observations, we take a look. > > "We," in this case, is those doing targeted searches. The SETI League is engaged in an all-sky survey. See for an explanation of the two complimentary straategies. > >>note (not yours, I realize) from: http://www.the-cure.com/OBSERVATORY.html >>soon after the planets' discovery was announced, seti (the search for extra >>terrestrial intelligence) ran a quick check on their records, and discovered >>a number of anomalous signals coming from the direction of 70 virginis. >>(joe mcnally - fortean times magazine) > >They failed to print the rest of the sentence: "WHICH WERE CONSISTENT WITH NOISE!" I love it when things are tken out of context, don't you? > >>3. What is Dan Werthimer's role; ie, what is the mission of SERENDIP, and > >Dan is a faculty member at University of California, Berkeley, in charge of coordinating SERENDIP. See for an overview of SERENDIP's mission. > >>does SERENDIP work hand-in-hand towards finding remote planets? > >No, SERENDIP is a parasitic SETI program (see their website), so they don't get to choose their targets. > >>4. You indicate that SETI will continue to scan 70 Virginis. What is the >>objective, or why the additional curiosity? > >SERENDIP IV at Arecibo runs at a different frequency than SERENDIP III, so repeat looks at previously scanned targets would be standard procedure. > >>5. As reported by NASA(?) on URL: >>http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap960130.html >>"The planet, designated 70 Vir b for short, was discovered by very slight >>periodic shifts in its colors. Defining characteristics of this planet >>include that it is >>at least eight times the mass of Jupiter, it's orbit is much smaller than >>Jupiter's, and it's temperature allows water to exist in liquid form - like >>on the Earth. Life on Earth is based on liquid water - could life exist here >>too?" >> >>How are such details such as size, mass, temperature, possibility of water, >>etc., determined about a world so distant? Did SETI data influence these >>amazing observations? > >For a complete description of the technique, see . SETI cannot claim any credit for the technique; it's purely optical. > >>6. And last but most important: where have anomalous signal been found? >>Many of us are still trying to deal with "teasing information" dating back as >>far as Project OZMA. After all you indicate: "We Know We're Not Alone!" >>What do you know? > > See for some of what we've heard so far. It's interesting (and not at all counterintuitive) that most of the 40 or so tantalizing candidate signals detected since 1960 have been concentrated in the galactic plane (after all, that's where all the stars are, isn't it?) > As for the "teasing" information from OZMA, Frank Drake figured out on about the eighth day that his Epsilon Eridani hit was a fast-moving, high-altitude aircraft. No such aircraft "existed" at the time (Powers' U2 notwithstanding), so he was not at liberty to say more. Ditto the Trevor Unsworth hit depicted on The SETI League's web site. I know a bit about the classified military satellite which caused the interference, but if I told you, I'd have to kill you. > Let me assure you that SETI scientists have NO INCENTIVE WHATEVER to cover up any meaningful discoveries which may result from our research. We're not funded by the government anymore, and (in the case of The SETI League) we're a grass-roots, international effort. (Our search now involves over 500 members in 30 countries on five continents, growing toward 5,000 participants someday -- let's see any Gov't try to squelch that!) > >>I will post your entire clarification at: >>http://members.aol.com/phikent/contact.html > >Great! And do forward the dialog to any pertinent usnet groups you see fit. Feel free to post the present discussion as well. And please note that The SETI League's web site, , contains nearly 800 documents, totaling more than 22 MBytes (!) of similar info, all for your browsing pleasure. Should you care to join us and support our search, a membership application is there as well. > >Regards, Paul > -------------------------------------------------------- H. Paul Shuch, Ph.D. Executive Director, The SETI League, Inc. 433 Liberty Street, PO Box 555, Little Ferry NJ 07643 USA voice (201) 641-1770; fax (201) 641-1771 email work: n6tx@setileague.org; home: drseti@csrlink.net URL http://www.setileague.org/ Bill Hamilton Executive Director SKYWATCH INTERNATIONAL Home e-mail: billh46088@aol.com, starmanbh@aol.com NOTE: CHANGE IN WORK E-MAIL: Work e-mail: william.hamilton@pcsmail.pcshs.com SKYWATCH website: http://www.wic.net/colonel/ufopage.htm ALIEN MAGIC website: http://members.aol.com/billh46088/newhome.htm "It is easier to ridicule than investigate, but not as profitable" - Alan ---------- <---- End Forwarded Message ----> Bill Hamilton Executive Director SKYWATCH INTERNATIONAL Home e-mail: billh46088@aol.com, starmanbh@aol.com NOTE: CHANGE IN WORK E-MAIL: Work e-mail: william.hamilton@pcsmail.pcshs.com SKYWATCH website: http://www.wic.net/colonel/ufopage.htm ALIEN MAGIC website: http://members.aol.com/billh46088/newhome.htm "It is easier to ridicule than investigate, but not as profitable" - Alan ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Subj: Fw: The Arrival, for real.....update. Date: 97-07-09 15:23:15 EDT From: bcornet@monmouth.com (Bruce Cornet) Reply-to: To: "Kent Steadman" Kent, Too bad these SETI scientists have such narrow focus, like their bandwidths. Bruce ---------- > From: Dr. H. Paul Shuch > To: bcornet@monmouth.com > Cc: rcf@setileague.org > Subject: Re: The Arrival, for real.....update. > Date: Wednesday, July 09, 1997 1:33 PM > At 13:27 7/9/97 -0400, you wrote: >These are magnetic signals recorded above an underground transmitter That's a little out of my field, Bruce, and I don't really feel qualified to respond. My expertise is strictly in microwave communications, and I don't have access to the types of instrumentation you require. You might wish to share your findings with MUFON. Best of luck in your ongoing research. Paul -------------------------------------------------------- H. Paul Shuch, Ph.D. Executive Director, The SETI League, Inc. 433 Liberty Street, PO Box 555, Little Ferry NJ 07643 USA voice (201) 641-1770; fax (201) 641-1771 email work: n6tx@setileague.org; home: drseti@csrlink.net URL http://www.setileague.org/ "We Know We're Not Alone!" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Subj: Re: Seeking info on 70 Virginis (fwd) Date: 97-07-09 02:56:46 EDT From: n6tx@setileague.org (Dr. H. Paul Shuch) To: Phikent@aol.com CC: rcf@setileague.org, bdenzler@acpub.duke.edu, seti@sni.net, allseti@uws.edu.au At 10:54 7/8/97 -0400, Kent Steadman wrote: >1. What UK publication broke the Virginis/SETI story? Mainstream? A mainstream newspaper, NOT a tabloid. Sorry, I don't recall which one. >2. Does Dr. Paul Butler, U.C. Berkeley, have input into the SETI agenda in >conjunction with the search for extrasolar planetary search. How does this >work? Does SETI ever cue Dr. Geoff Marci and Dr. Paul Butler to look in >regions where anomalous signals have been detected? Which comes first the >signal or the planet? The planet, where there's any coupling whatever, but the two generally operate independently. SETI candidate signals usually cannot be associated with a single, specific star; the beamwidths of the antennas are too broad. (Even the Big Ear radio telescope at Ohio State University, one of the narrowest, has about five stars within its field of view at any given time). Since interesting signals can generally be narrowed down only to a general *region*, we don't provide much input to the planet hunters. And since they already know which nearby stars are most Sun-like and of the right age, mass, temperature combination to form planets, they don't really need our input. As it happens, the star catalogs used by the targeted search SETI folk and the planet hunters have a good deal of overlap anyway. On the other hand, when confirmed planets are announced, we do one of two things: (1) review data for past observations of the region of the sky containing that particular star, (2) absent such past observations, we take a look. "We," in this case, is those doing targeted searches. The SETI League is engaged in an all-sky survey. See for an explanation of the two complimentary straategies. >note (not yours, I realize) from: http://www.the-cure.com/OBSERVATORY.html >soon after the planets' discovery was announced, seti (the search for extra >terrestrial intelligence) ran a quick check on their records, and discovered >a number of anomalous signals coming from the direction of 70 virginis. >(joe mcnally - fortean times magazine) They failed to print the rest of the sentence: "WHICH WERE CONSISTENT WITH NOISE!" I love it when things are tken out of context, don't you? >3. What is Dan Werthimer's role; ie, what is the mission of SERENDIP, and Dan is a faculty member at University of California, Berkeley, in charge of coordinating SERENDIP. See for an overview of SERENDIP's mission. >does SERENDIP work hand-in-hand towards finding remote planets? No, SERENDIP is a parasitic SETI program (see their website), so they don't get to choose their targets. >4. You indicate that SETI will continue to scan 70 Virginis. What is the >objective, or why the additional curiosity? SERENDIP IV at Arecibo runs at a different frequency than SERENDIP III, so repeat looks at previously scanned targets would be standard procedure. >5. As reported by NASA(?) on URL: >http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap960130.html >"The planet, designated 70 Vir b for short, was discovered by very slight >periodic shifts in its colors. Defining characteristics of this planet >include that it is >at least eight times the mass of Jupiter, it's orbit is much smaller than >Jupiter's, and it's temperature allows water to exist in liquid form - like >on the Earth. Life on Earth is based on liquid water - could life exist here >too?" > >How are such details such as size, mass, temperature, possibility of water, >etc., determined about a world so distant? Did SETI data influence these >amazing observations? For a complete description of the technique, see . SETI cannot claim any credit for the technique; it's purely optical. >6. And last but most important: where have anomalous signal been found? >Many of us are still trying to deal with "teasing information" dating back as >far as Project OZMA. After all you indicate: "We Know We're Not Alone!" >What do you know? See for some of what we've heard so far. It's interesting (and not at all counterintuitive) that most of the 40 or so tantalizing candidate signals detected since 1960 have been concentrated in the galactic plane (after all, that's where all the stars are, isn't it?) As for the "teasing" information from OZMA, Frank Drake figured out on about the eighth day that his Epsilon Eridani hit was a fast-moving, high-altitude aircraft. No such aircraft "existed" at the time (Powers' U2 notwithstanding), so he was not at liberty to say more. Ditto the Trevor Unsworth hit depicted on The SETI League's web site. I know a bit about the classified military satellite which caused the interference, but if I told you, I'd have to kill you. Let me assure you that SETI scientists have NO INCENTIVE WHATEVER to cover up any meaningful discoveries which may result from our research. We're not funded by the government anymore, and (in the case of The SETI League) we're a grass-roots, international effort. (Our search now involves over 500 members in 30 countries on five continents, growing toward 5,000 participants someday -- let's see any Gov't try to squelch that!) >I will post your entire clarification at: >http://members.aol.com/phikent/contact.html Great! And do forward the dialog to any pertinent usnet groups you see fit. Feel free to post the present discussion as well. And please note that The SETI League's web site, , contains nearly 800 documents, totaling more than 22 MBytes (!) of similar info, all for your browsing pleasure. Should you care to join us and support our search, a membership application is there as well. Regards, Paul -------------------------------------------------------- H. Paul Shuch, Ph.D. Executive Director, The SETI League, Inc. 433 Liberty Street, PO Box 555, Little Ferry NJ 07643 USA voice (201) 641-1770; fax (201) 641-1771 email work: n6tx@setileague.org; home: drseti@csrlink.net URL http://www.setileague.org/ "We Know We're Not Alone!" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Subj: Re: Seeking info on 70 Virginis (fwd) Date: 97-07-09 05:02:17 EDT From: Phikent To: n6tx@setileague.org In a message dated 97-07-09 02:56:46 EDT, you write: << >note (not yours, I realize) from: http://www.the-cure.com/OBSERVATORY.html >soon after the planets' discovery was announced, seti (the search for extra >terrestrial intelligence) ran a quick check on their records, and discovered >a number of anomalous signals coming from the direction of 70 virginis. >(joe mcnally - fortean times magazine) They failed to print the rest of the sentence: "WHICH WERE CONSISTENT WITH NOISE!" I love it when things are tken out of context, don't you? >> How are anomalous signals CONSISTENT with noise? I don't understand. What is the usual, what isn't? In other words can you give me a better description of what was received from 70Vir. Who interpreted the data? Do you have any visual graphics of the signal such as you portray on your website: What We've Heard So Far http://www.setileague.org/photos/hits.htm Kent Steadman http://members.aol.com/phikent/contact.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Subj: Re: Seeking info on 70 Virginis (fwd) Date: 97-07-09 11:13:58 EDT From: n6tx@setileague.org (Dr. H. Paul Shuch) To: Phikent@aol.com CC: rcf@setileague.org, seti@sni.net, allseti@uws.edu.au At 05:01 7/9/97 -0400, Kent Steadman wrote: > >How are anomalous signals CONSISTENT with noise? I don't understand. What >is the usual, what isn't? OK, one last try, and then I really have to get back to work. Everything that's at a temperature above absolute zero generates radio signals. These are natural signals (noise), NOT artificial, or created by intelligent beings. You can see such thermal noise by turning on your TV, to an unused channel -- it looks like a snowstorm. You would receive such signals from any star. (In fact, if you watch satellite TV, you will notice that twice a year, at the equinoxes, you receive interference from our own Sun, as it aligns with the geosynhcronous satellite belt. That signal is surely not intelligently generated.) You do statistical analysis on all signals to see if there's anything artificial buried in them. In the case of 70Vir, there wasn't. >In other words can you give me a better description of what was received from >70Vir. Who interpreted the data? Do you have any visual graphics of the >signal such as you portray on your website: I don't have any graphics of 70Vir specifically, and I doubt the SERENDIP people do; it's all probably just raw computer data. A computer interpreted the data. But I can give you an example. Take a look at the "Wow!" signal, as depicted at . Everything to the left of time 22:14:30 is consistent with noise. So is everything to the right of 22:18:00. What's in between is statistically different from noise, hence assumed to be a signal of some sort. Now I had intended to put this myth to rest, not make a career of it, so this will have to suffice. Thanks for your interest. -------------------------------------------------------- H. Paul Shuch, Ph.D. Executive Director, The SETI League, Inc. 433 Liberty Street, PO Box 555, Little Ferry NJ 07643 USA voice (201) 641-1770; fax (201) 641-1771 email work: n6tx@setileague.org; home: drseti@csrlink.net URL http://www.setileague.org/ "We Know We're Not Alone!" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Subj: Re: CONTACT: 70 Virginis Date: 97-07-09 11:17:14 EDT From: raver187@m-net.arbornet.org (Joe LeSesne) To: Phikent@aol.com I came across some links that may help you understand things better: Here is the link to the star list being used Project Phoenix at Green Bank currently: http://www.seti.org/lowgfx/phoenix/gbstarspre.html and the one used by Project Phoenix in Australia: http://www.seti.org/lowgfx/phoenix/starspre.html and the one used by the Targetted Search System that NASA used before it was cancelled and became Project Phoenix: http://www.seti-inst.edu/lowgfx/searches/hrms-star-pre.html How they (Project Phoenix) go about their target selection: http://www.seti.org/lowgfx/phoenix/target-selection.html Oh yeah and a list of all SETI performed to date: http://www.seti-inst.edu/lowgfx/searches/searches-list.html Also here is a link to SETI@Home which will soon allow you to do your own SETI analysis from your PC connected to the net! http://bigscience.com/setiathome.html An interesting site similar to yours on the error in reporting a planet found around Zeta2 Reticuli is here: http://207.167.67.197/zeta2ret.html have fun joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Subj: Re: CONTACT: 70 Virginis Date: 97-07-09 04:43:46 EDT From: raver187@m-net.arbornet.org (Joe LeSesne) To: Phikent@aol.com What has SETI found? A lot of our stuff we sent up. Several anomalous signals like the WOW Signal, see http://www.bigear.org and a microwave oven! What has spurred on the search has been the ability to simultaneously scan more frequencies than before. So as the technology has expanded so has the search. OZMA was primitive. Check out the links at these sites to see what you have missed: http://www.seti-inst.edu http://www.bigear.com http://www.setiquest.com and do check out http://www.obspm.fr/planets and http://cannon.sfsu.edu/~williams/planetsearch/planetsearch.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Subj: Re: CONTACT: 70 Virginis Date: 97-07-09 15:35:12 EDT From: Phikent To: raver187@m-net.arbornet.org In a message dated 97-07-09 11:17:14 EDT, you write: << I came across some links that may help you understand things better: >> Hi Joe: Thanks for all your great links. I'll check them out. I'm especially interested in the Zeta Reticuli signal. Maybe my original queries about 70 Vir will dogleg towards something more significant? I'm just trying to get to the bottom of things, and my site is changing as I go. SETI's, Dr. Shuchs emailed me, good thing, I was too intimidated to call him. Would ask that you analyze Shuch's comments, especially the Vir 70 "anomalous-noise" paradox and his explanations about OZMA. Shuch's seems quite willing to respond to my lay questions. Maybe you have some queries of your own; now would be a good time to address questions to SETI. Anyway the dialogue is as follows. (Repeat of above dialogue with Dr. Shuchs) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- EDITOR'S NOTE: following post by Dr. Tom Van Flandern Subj: RE: CONTACT: 70 Virginis (referred by Bruce Cornet) Date: 97-07-09 16:09:52 EDT From: metares@well.com (Tom Van Flandern) To: Phikent@aol.com ('Phikent@aol.com') CC: bcornet@monmouth.com ('bcornet@monmouth.com(BruceCornet)') Kent, * Has SETI, or Dr. Marci and Dr. Butler continued to examine the 70 Virginis region? Yes, their group continues to observe at various wavelengths to acquire more and better orbital information on the possible planet or planets. * What is the nature of these strange signals? I have not heard of any "strange signals", and suspect a prank. If anything interesting had been received, the news would have spread rapidly among astronomers, if not the press too. * How have Dr. Marci and Dr. Butler been able to retrieve such detailed information about this distant planet in orbit around 70 Virginis (please see notes)? From measures of radial velocities (taken with a spectrograph), small back-and-forth shifts indicate the presence of a planet. The amplitude of this variation indicates the planet's mass, and the period also tells us the planet's distance, since we know the mass of the parent star from its spectral type. The mass of the star tells us the star's surface temperature, and the distance of the planet then allows us to compute the surface temperature of the planet. These are all routine calculations for every extra-solar planet so far discovered. * I've always wondered what Dr. Paul Butler's role is on the team? Well Paul Butler is from U.C. Berkeley! Eureka! SETI! U.C. Berkeley is a huge place. A connection based only on the institution is quite a leap. My impression is that Dr. Butler is too busy for any other project right now. * "Soon after the planets' discovery was announced, SETI (the search for extra terrestrial intelligence) ran a quick check on their records, and discovered a number of anomalous signals coming from the direction of 70 Virginis. If so, apparently only you and someone at SETI know about it. :-) Since SETI is desperate for funding, I suspect that no signals worthy of mention have been detected. Whatever other motives people may have, greed tends to dominate. :-) -|Tom|- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Subj: Re: CONTACT: 70 Virginis (referred by Bruce Cornet) Date: 97-07-10 16:17:53 EDT From: Phikent To: metares@well.com Hi Tom: A member of one of my newgroups asked: "Someone in England just wrote me about an announcement that was made by SETI about receiving radio signals from Virginis70. Does anyone know anything about this and the truth behind it? " So I decided to try to find out by posting the query to a website and asking for opinions. Got plenty within hours (found out that not everyone trusts SETI). Also, within two days I heard from Dr. Shuchs at SETI trying to quell rumors apparently started by the mainstream press in the UK . Dr. Shuchs has indicated that all SETI detected 70Vir was "noise." I'll attach here his complete response to my questions. Now I'm on the track of: 1. Zeta2 Reticuli, first there was a planet, then there wasn't-- In and out of the Extra-solar Planets Catalog. http://www.mufor.org/extrasol.html. 2. Dr. Cornet's anomalous signals from earth to space! Magnetic signals recorded above an underground transmitter in an area where no military base exists, but where UFO sightings have been made by the thousands. . .these signals were quite powerful, highly focussed, polarized,multiband in the magnetic spectrum, and were called polarized magnetic photon beams. . . Thanks so much for your input. Kent Steadman http://members.aol.com/phikent/contact.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- EDITOR'S NOTE: Perhaps the 70Vir story is taking a dogleg to something of great significance with this following post: Subj: The Arrival, for real.....update. Date: 97-07-09 21:31:07 EDT From: bcornet@monmouth.com (Bruce Cornet) Reply-to: bcornet@monmouth.com To: n6tx@setileague.org (H. Paul Shuch, Ph.D.) CC: phikent@aol.com (Kent Steadman) Dear Dr. Shuch, Go to: http://www.orionworks.com/bcornet/Vol_2/RPT_Introduction.html, more specifically to: http://www.orionworks.com/bcornet/Vol_2/Fig_09.html and http://www.orionworks.com/bcornet/Vol_2/Fig_05.html These are magnetic signals recorded above an underground transmitter in an area where no military base exists, but where UFO sightings have been made by the thousands. In your correspondence with Kent Steadman (Phikent@aol.com), you stated: "As for the "teasing" information from OZMA, Frank Drake figured out on about the eighth day that his Epsilon Eridani hit was a fast-moving, high-altitude aircraft. No such aircraft "existed" at the time (Powers' U2 notwithstanding), so he was not at liberty to say more. Ditto the Trevor Unsworth hit depicted on The SETI League's web site. I know a bit about the classified military satellite which caused the interference, but if I told you, I'd have to kill you." We both know to what your are referring, and I certainly do not want to put you at risk in discussing anything that may be regarded as classified and secret military information. But your comment is my opener and reason for my being able to introduce a subject that makes many of my colleagues in science very uneasy. I am sure you are aware of the movie, The Arrival, starring Charlie Sheen, if you have not already seen it. I am soliciting your help or the help of others in SETI to analyze signals that I detected coming not from space to Earth, but from the Earth going out into space. These signals were quite powerful, highly focussed, polarized, multiband in the magnetic spectrum, and were called polarized magnetic photon beams by one physicist who looked at my data. The transmitter array appears to be a triad; the transmitters are located underground, and they may be arranged in the form of an equilateral triangle. These signals are associated with very heavy TLP (Transient Luminescent Phenomenon) activity involving thousands of sightings over many decades. I have witnessed these lights and the craft that produce them. They have intentionally performed maneuvers in the night sky for my cameras. You can get some idea of my research at my websites, which can be accessed at http://www.OrionWorks.com/bcornet/ I am a geologist and paleobotanist who worked with Dr. Paul E. Olsen at Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory for four years on a drilling project in the Newark Supergroup, East Coast, N.A. We found conclusive evidence of planetary and lunar influence of Earth's climate over a period of 28 million years during the Late Triassic through to the earliest Jurassic (~200 mya to 228 mya). The data are spectacular, with calibrations for the procession that agree well with current data. See: Olsen, Kent, Cornet, Witte, and Schlische (1996), GSA Bulletin, v. 108; no. 1: p. 40-77. The article is entitled: High-resolution stratigraphy of the Newark rift basin (early Mesozoic, eastern North America). Had I not had personal sightings and contact, I would not be so bold as to put my credentials and future on the line as I have done. But what I am hoping you can do is give me some advice and help in interpreting the signal data I gathered, which was confirmed twice by recording similar intermittent measurements on other dates. Go to http://www.OrionWorks.com/bcornet/Vol_2. Even if you and your associates feel that this subject and information are too sensitive or controversial, you may be able to learn something that will allow you to modify your antennas to pick up similar signals. If what I detected is real and not manmade or natural, it could help you to detect signals coming from space in unsuspected bandwidths. And that could be a bonanza for all SETI devotees. I will make all my data available to you. I am also looking for someone who can loan me a proton magnetometer so that I can go back out into the field and collect more data. Yours truly, Bruce Cornet, Ph.D. 27 Tower Hill Ave. Red Bank, NJ 07701 (732) 747-9244 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Subj: Re: CONTACT: 70 Virginis Date: 97-07-09 07:00:57 EDT From: raver187@m-net.arbornet.org (Joe LeSesne) Reply-to: raver187@m-net.arbornet.org (Joe LeSesne) To: Phikent@aol.com Regarding your question of how such detailed information can be known about a planet so distant I suggest you check out Marcy and Butler's site since it gives details of how their technique works. Basically a laymans explaination works like this. A planet orbiting a star causes a pull on the star. Very slight but noticible if you have a sensitive enough spectrometer looking at the spectrum of the star. As things move away from us their spectrum is shifted towards the red. As things move towards us it is shifted towards the blue. A planet orbiting a star causes a sequence of red/blue shifting which is due to the planet pulling the star away from us and towards us ever so slight. The amount of this red/blue shifting can enable scientists to guess the upper mass limit of the planet. The time it takes enables an astronomer to estimate the distance a planet is from the star it orbits. Having this information as well as the luminosity or brightness of the star (which is found using the inverse square law) one can estimate how warm the planet might be.. No need for a SETI signal. The funny thing is this isn't detailed information at all. scientists would love to know about it's atmosphere whether or not there are any moons etc. That can only be found when and if the planet is directly imaged. As for wether SETI and the planet finding teams collaborate the answer is yes and that information can be found at http://www.seti-inst.edu Both use the same criteria for star selection and whenever a new planet is found around a Sunlike star it is added to SETI's star list if it isn't already on it (many are since as I said they use the same criteria for selection.) This is nothing earthshaking, it makes good sense because if you find a planet around a nearby sunlike star no matter how large it is that is a good indication that there may be more planets around that star, perhaps one like the earth. Hope this helps. joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- EDITORS NOTE: Here we go again, see below: Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 22:23:49 -0500 Reply-To: UFO-L email list Sender: UFO-L email list From: Steve Abrams Subject: Am I the only one????? To: UFO-L@MB.PROTREE.COM Hi all, The other day (I believe it was monday) I was listening to WBBM radio (Chicago, Il) and a news bit came accross about 2 scientist / astronomers (possible part of project seti). They now claim that they have received "signals" grom another galaxy close to ours. However, they received the signals in 1975 and have just recently decided that the signals was not "noise". They were supposidly working independent of each other from the same data. I thought this would bring a lot of comments on the list but it appears no one else heard it. Steve Abrams http://www.ziplink.net/~deputy Follow the Illegal Alien Link ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Subj: Re: The real story on 70 Virginis. Date: 97-07-23 10:10:14 EDT From: LARRYK@MICROSYS.COM (LARRY KLAES) Reply-to: LARRYK@MICROSYS.COM (LARRY KLAES) To: Phikent@aol.com Hello Kent, > Aye, those were my questions Dr. Shuch responded to. I would appreciate > any further information. I can't seem to lay things to rest from one source. There will always be a few who think the Government is hiding something. Personally I have found that the Gov. can't tie its shoes right without a ream of paperwork first. > I'd like to know more about the inner workings of the SETI League. Their Web site has just about everything you want to know, plus Dr. Shuch is an open and friendly fellow. I give him much credit for bringing SETI to the masses. > Quoting another astronomer (this is admittledly out of context): > > "Since SETI is desperate for funding, I suspect that no signals worthy of > mention have been detected. Whatever other motives people may have, greed > tends to dominate. :-) -|Tom|-" This does not make sense. Many people have wanted to cut funding to SETI because they have not yet found a signal since serious attempts were first made in 1960. Finding a signal would increase support and funding, not cut it. Just as when the first exoplanet was found, scientists knew many more had to be out there and increased the search, thus it will be the same when the first SETI signal is detected. Trying to find a particular signal in the natural noise of the Universe is worse than trying to pick out a single voice in a room full of screaming people. I should also note that microwaves (radio) is not the only way ETI could be signalling us. See Dr. Stuart Kingsley's Web site on Optical SETI for details: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/coseti_observatory/ Regards, ########################### Larry Klaes Senior Technical Writer Microsystems Software, Inc. 600 Worcester Road Framingham, MA 01702 U.S.A. Tel: (508) 416-1000 http://www.microsys.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Subj: Re: The real story on 70 Virginis. Date: 97-07-25 10:31:52 EDT From: Phikent To: LARRYK@microsys.com In a message dated 97-07-23 10:10:14 EDT, you write: << note that microwaves (radio) is not the only way ETI could be signalling us. See Dr. Stuart Kingsley's Web site on Optical SETI for details: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/coseti_observatory/ >> A late note--I included a link to Dr. Kingley's website. Thanks for the tip. Kent Steadman http://members.aol.com/phikent/contact.html